tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7983462.post6565958845068402612..comments2024-02-12T03:04:46.091-08:00Comments on AttackingtheDemi-Puppets: About "Jimmy Grace"King Wenclashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13709139159194279478noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7983462.post-81601411443878759392007-02-25T06:26:00.000-08:002007-02-25T06:26:00.000-08:00Man oh man, y'all are some boring, obsessed losers...Man oh man, y'all are some boring, obsessed losers (who can't write for an audience that is anything more than other boring, obsessed losers).<BR/><BR/>Seriously, you "investigated" this "Jimmy Grace" guy?<BR/><BR/>LOLRobert Hernandezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08321767787451063683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7983462.post-14194239879335073352007-02-23T09:11:00.000-08:002007-02-23T09:11:00.000-08:00No, honey, you're losing it: the argument.Your cla...No, honey, you're losing it: the argument.<BR/><BR/>Your claims that I'm Stephen Elliott are:<BR/><BR/>1. There's no such thing as Arms Akimbo on the web. (This point has been disproven.)<BR/><BR/>2. I said I was touring with a queer tour, and you found it. And so is Stephen Elliott. (This point is clear.)<BR/><BR/>3. I saw Handler read, and so did Stephen Elliott. (This point counts for nothing.)<BR/><BR/>4. I disagree with some of your strategies, and...um...Stephen Elliott probably does. (You have no idea.)<BR/><BR/>5. Stephen Elliott knows Dave Eggers. (Um, whatever.)<BR/><BR/>Now, you could contact Elliott, who's still on tour, and ask him for a response. Maybe you have. Maybe you're scared to post the response because it's probably something like, "Who? No. Sorry." Or maybe you already know you'd get a response like that. Meanwhile, better Googlers have found my collective and are of the opinion that I don't write like SE. But no, no, no, that doesn't fit with your unproven, easy-to-disprove paranoia.jimmy gracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12434938879390034763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7983462.post-81959505192480845282007-02-22T19:35:00.000-08:002007-02-22T19:35:00.000-08:00??? You're losing it, Elliot.??? You're losing it, Elliot.King Wenclashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13709139159194279478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7983462.post-23572040517964353452007-02-22T18:23:00.000-08:002007-02-22T18:23:00.000-08:00Well, if you have, why not post his response? (Fu...Well, if you have, why not post his response? (Funny how you keep the privacy of all these people who are trying to destroy you via e-mail, but reprint a polite letter from some poetry chick.)<BR/><BR/>Dude, if I hung with the bigwigs I'd be too busy hating myself to post here. Nope, I'm just Jimmy Grace, with Arms Akimbo, who you can't find in the first five minutes on Google and so you think is some movie star. Dream on.jimmy gracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12434938879390034763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7983462.post-23579445919318399582007-02-22T16:40:00.000-08:002007-02-22T16:40:00.000-08:00Grace, you're confusing the two halves of your bra...Grace, you're confusing the two halves of your brain again. How do you know I haven't e-mailed Stephen Elliott? Perhaps I have.<BR/>Again, you don't have the backbone to post here under your real identity-- which tells me you don't really believe what you're saying. <BR/>(Say hi to Eggers, Handler, and Company.)King Wenclashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13709139159194279478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7983462.post-55226393164425780052007-02-22T15:29:00.000-08:002007-02-22T15:29:00.000-08:00Drive me crazy? How would that manifest itself? ...Drive me crazy? How would that manifest itself? Would I begin to think that anyone who disagreed with me was part of a movement trying desperately to crush me? Would I think that arts collectives wouldn't exist even when there was evidence that they didn't? Would I think strangers online were longterm enemies despite evidence to the contrary? Would I confront bigwigs by refusing to e-mail them to confirm my conspiracy theories? Would I think that attracting a crowd at an arts event means sucking up to rich people?jimmy gracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12434938879390034763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7983462.post-14105384133365053272007-02-22T14:20:00.000-08:002007-02-22T14:20:00.000-08:00There's no doubt you're Stephen Elliott. There's n...There's no doubt you're Stephen Elliott. There's no one else you can be. You've not otherwise credibly explained your motivation.<BR/>Latest point: your eagerness to see what kind of crowd we get. Pride/confidence about the matter because of course you put on shows yourself, which I assume are fairly successful.<BR/>The bottom line remains the same. You make your way by sucking up to mendacious rich people. You don't have the backbone to post here under your own identity. You don't respect yourself, really. You're in conflict because inside yourself you realize you're a phony. Being confronted with the genuine article is too much for you to take. Why else are you here, day after day?<BR/>You want me and the ULA to go away. But Stephen, we're not going away.<BR/>Allow that to drive you crazy.King Wenclashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13709139159194279478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7983462.post-11250544902293343412007-02-22T10:18:00.001-08:002007-02-22T10:18:00.001-08:00Dude, I am used to it. The outrageous paranoid cl...Dude, I am used to it. The outrageous paranoid claims, the lack of evidence, and then you're off with another "Harrumph." You used to think Arms Akimbo was fake and now you admit it's real....but of course I'm still Tim Hall. I mean, Stephen Elliott.jimmy gracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12434938879390034763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7983462.post-87427933583691740702007-02-22T10:18:00.000-08:002007-02-22T10:18:00.000-08:00Dude, I am used to it. The outrageous paranoid cl...Dude, I am used to it. The outrageous paranoid claims, the lack of evidence, and then you're off with another "Harrumph." You used to think Arms Akimbo was fake and now you admit it's real....but of course I'm still Tim Hall. I mean, Stephen Elliott.jimmy gracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12434938879390034763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7983462.post-18564711326321594352007-02-22T10:08:00.000-08:002007-02-22T10:08:00.000-08:00Just as long as we know where we stand, Elliott. I...Just as long as we know where we stand, Elliott. I'll continue making noise. I suggest you get used to it.King Wenclashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13709139159194279478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7983462.post-80298386673146456122007-02-22T09:28:00.000-08:002007-02-22T09:28:00.000-08:00"what right to you tell me I can't try a different..."what right to you tell me I can't try a different strategy to shake things up?"<BR/><BR/>You're so fucking delusional. Nobody's telling you you can't do any shit you want. Nobody's shutting you down. Nobody's destroying your organization. Nobody's denying your right to dissent. Nobody's doing anything to you. I think your tactics are bullshit and won't work. I say so because I want to, it's a free country and I have a boring job. <BR/><BR/>Arms Akimbo puts up art in public places that thousands of people see. Back in the 80s (when I wasn't in it) Boy/Girl with Arms Akimbo put queer politics on the map. That's why I think the method of making art works. You just like to sit around blogging about bigwigs and pretend that your enemies surround you, when in real life I'm not Stephen Elliott and the bigwigs don't care about you and nobody gives a shit.jimmy gracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12434938879390034763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7983462.post-31524560425033057552007-02-21T20:17:00.000-08:002007-02-21T20:17:00.000-08:00What, and take his (your) word for it? You're a fi...What, and take his (your) word for it? <BR/>You're a fictional character, Jimmy Grace, and that's how I'll treat you. <BR/>You like to slide right by everyone's points. <BR/>Here's another.<BR/>"Boys with Arms Akimbo" seems to have been around for decades. What are they doing? They same thing they did many years ago? Posting flyers on walls? THAT has an impact?<BR/>I did such things when I was younger. But I ask-- by what right to you tell me I can't try a different strategy to shake things up? To try to influence this culture a bit?<BR/>We decided at the ULA's founding to strike at the heart of the beast-- at the wealthy Insiders and plutocrats who control the culture. (Such as the takeover of CLMP by the wealthy elite.) It's a strategy worth trying. Does it work? The system, we're discovering, is fundamentally corrupt-- worse than we thought. We've been searching for one honest man in the ranks of the establishment and have yet to find that person. (Alas, Stephen Elliott obviously isn't him.)<BR/>We have made some noise, shaken up some folks-- sent shock waves through the corrupt empire of today's literature once or twice. We may do it again. I don't see a lot there, frankly. Spineless jellyfish, for the most part-- terrified of the ULA and our ideas, your protests against the notion to the contrary. Closed-minded and terrified.<BR/>Resolutely unwilling to come out of hiding, as both of you are.<BR/>After our Sunday show we'll see if we can bring the mice out of hiding, maybe throw some light on the rats and the cockroaches.<BR/>Stay tuned-- this campaign is far from over.King Wenclashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13709139159194279478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7983462.post-40310498073341900292007-02-21T12:52:00.000-08:002007-02-21T12:52:00.000-08:00Dude, that's the difference between us: I don't th...Dude, that's the difference between us: I don't think bickering on a blog is revolutionary. I don't think I'm provoking anybody. I try to make things happen with my art. During my boring job I just like to do whatever.<BR/><BR/>Who are you provoking with your blog? You claim everybody reads it but the comments sure don't show it. You got me, you got Joyce, you got a couple of friends, and when you open it to anonymous people you get maybe two more.<BR/><BR/>And no, I'm not Stephen Elliott. You could prove that yourself by contacting him...but that'd spoil your performance.jimmy gracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12434938879390034763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7983462.post-43281403531532772692007-02-21T12:19:00.000-08:002007-02-21T12:19:00.000-08:00Keep it coming. I understand you need to show that...Keep it coming. I understand you need to show that you're not Elliott. (The easiest way would be to establish your own identity-- but you can't do that!)<BR/>Here's a significant point.<BR/>IF "Grace" actually were an underground activist, that would be the saddest statement of all; that he has wasted all this time trying to discredit fellow undergrounders. Completely senseless. The Dadaists believed in provoking the bourgeoisie-- the powers-that-be-- which is exactly what we're doing.<BR/>Who are you provoking with your posts? The establishment? Or not those completely opposed to it?<BR/>Revolution? Yes, we aim to turn the current literary world on its head; to shake things out and start over. To end its seemingly unredeemable corruption. It's a worthy cause. I'd think any undergrounder would fully support it. (Or even Stephen Elliott himself.)King Wenclashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13709139159194279478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7983462.post-49150442449762982832007-02-21T11:28:00.000-08:002007-02-21T11:28:00.000-08:00Crashing readings is debate? Oh, I didn't realize...Crashing readings is debate? Oh, I didn't realize. I thought it was dada performance art. I got thrown out of a gallery once for talking loudly about the bullshit on the wall, but I didn't think I was a revolutionary.<BR/><BR/>But hey, maybe you're right King. I'd post all sorts of rage on a McSweeneys blog but they don't have one, and even though I've called all the writers you hate terrible names, I can understand that's not enough participation for you. So in the spirit of helping you find enemies, rather than debate - because clearly the enemies thing is what you prefer - here's something I found while googling Handler (you know, my "best friend.") Here's the bullshit he's up to:<BR/><BR/>http://www.observer.com/20070115/20070115_Max_Abelson_culture_books3.asp<BR/><BR/>And now you can rage about it. It's right up your alley! You're welcome!jimmy gracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12434938879390034763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7983462.post-27049104081188575852007-02-21T11:13:00.000-08:002007-02-21T11:13:00.000-08:00Posting under a fake identity isn't debating, Elli...Posting under a fake identity isn't debating, Elliott. That's absurd.<BR/>You want to have your cake and eat it too. You wish to be free to attack and slur me without end-- yes, has been pointed out, you've been posting here a long time-- with no accountability. Which leaves you free to pick apart every potential or possible flaw to the ULA, without suffering even a smidgen of criticism yourself.<BR/>A debate means meeting on some equality of footing.<BR/>Of course, that's not what your crowd is about.<BR/>You're published writers with massive resources and access to media attention. <BR/>We're writers without connections, credentials, or resources. ALL we have is our ability to make noise-- which is what we're doing.<BR/>Our movement is in fact very dada-esque. It's beyond my comprehension that someone himself allegedly from a dada group would get hyper over the actions we've conducted over the last several years.<BR/>Debate? You want debate, you fraud?<BR/>Debate is all we've asked for when we've crashed readings, whether at KGB, Housing Works, at the Philadelphia Free Library when I was cut off and threatened with being banned from the library permanently for trying to debate your friend Hiram F Moody III.<BR/>Curious, isn't it, that an underground activist would be so hostile toward us-- and on the side of pretentious phony millionaires.<BR/>Why is all responsibility for answering questions on us-- the lowliest writers around-- and not on the fatcats? <BR/>The simple fact is that the literary world today is filled with phonies who love to posture as outsiders without taking one action or saying one disagreeable word against the corrupt cultural system to help bring it down.King Wenclashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13709139159194279478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7983462.post-72618935596822235612007-02-21T09:51:00.000-08:002007-02-21T09:51:00.000-08:00PS The fantasy that the bigwigs are watching your ...PS The fantasy that the bigwigs are watching your every move has no evidence, either. Or is that part of your private e-mail stash that you won't reveal even though you're an upfront, open guy? Oh no, sorry, I'm debating. Very sorry. You're just performing.jimmy gracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12434938879390034763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7983462.post-83455412688436854132007-02-21T09:10:00.000-08:002007-02-21T09:10:00.000-08:00Arms Akimbo evolved from Boy with Arms Akimbo and ...Arms Akimbo evolved from Boy with Arms Akimbo and its sister Girl With Arms Akimbo (which I said on this very blog). The original groups were gay activists in the 1980 and over time we've become something else. Looks like somebody without an axe to grind found us pretty easily. Whatayaknow.<BR/><BR/>I've explained a million times why I post here and elsewhere, and I appreciate an invitation to fly across country at my own expense, but I don't have that kind of dough. I thought this blog was a way to debate without airfare, but apparently it's a living room.<BR/><BR/>I was talking this over with a friend last night and he said, "Dude, it sounds like they just don't want to tussle." I respect that - lots of artists just want to do the work and not bicker. If King's art is accusing his "enemies" then it's fine if he doesn't want any debate, I guess. I thought tussling was the point of blogs - it sure is on political ones - but clearly here it's all about throwing mud and not getting any in return. King's obsession with everyone identifing themselves is clearly because he wants to go after them in their own arenas rather than your own. (I can just imagine his comments if Akimbo had a blog.) Even when I identified myself you decided I couldn't possibly be that person. But what the fuck would it matter if I were Damien Hurst? I thought you wanted to argue ideas. But I think I see it now. You just want a list of enemies, the better to fire up your troops. That explains why you claim outrageous things and then, when called on it, retreat. "The CIA controls lit!" "Oh, really, where's the evidence?" "Um, it's in my inbox, but I don't want to post it, and you must be a corporate zombie." "Jimmy is Stephen Elliott!" "Oh, really, why don't you ask him?" "Oh, that's too easy, and besides, the Eggers gang is threatening me and you must be Stephen Elliott to even bring it up."<BR/><BR/>You're right. It is art - it's performance art. I just got fooled into thinking it was debate. You don't want to tussle.jimmy gracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12434938879390034763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7983462.post-78800265803194179082007-02-21T08:54:00.000-08:002007-02-21T08:54:00.000-08:00I'd like to ask Stephen directly about the quote o...I'd like to ask Stephen directly about the quote of his at the end of my Report. He says right there that the corridors of literature are the province of the very rich. He feels strange to have stumbled into this world.<BR/>This quote of his bolsters much of what the ULA has long been saying.King Wenclashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13709139159194279478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7983462.post-30927434046970826702007-02-21T08:52:00.000-08:002007-02-21T08:52:00.000-08:00Sorry, it makes no sense whatsoever that a person ...Sorry, it makes no sense whatsoever that a person with Arms Akimbo would be so obsessed with the ULA, and with me in particular. He's been calling me "a drunk," using the stance of the Handler/Eggers crowd, in the same way the anonymous person who mutilated my wikipedia entry did.<BR/>People don't do these things without reason. Maybe someone from Akimbo happened to be on the same sex tour, and at the same Handler reading, as was Stephen Elliott. <BR/>Which of the two is likely to hold animus toward the ULA?<BR/>The reasons for Elliott are overwhelming.<BR/>How did "Grace" otherwise even know about us? (I asked him several times how he found out about this blog.)<BR/>There is a final clincher, of course: The Dog that Didn't Bark.<BR/>The question isn't whether I e-mailed Stephen Elliott-- but why he didn't e-mail me or the ULA as soon as he heard about this? (No doubt whatever that he heard-- his best friend Daniel Handler doesn't hesitate to e-mail me.)<BR/>To anyone who believes "Grace" isn't Elliott: I have some property on Detroit's beautiful Zug Island I'd like to sell you.King Wenclashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13709139159194279478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7983462.post-8147145360791208662007-02-21T05:10:00.000-08:002007-02-21T05:10:00.000-08:00One can be a writer AND enjoy their grafitti. Have...One can be a writer AND enjoy their grafitti. Have fun on the tour, Jimmy! Good luck with the fund-raising!Jeff Potterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03790219160140511776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7983462.post-850337434316821512007-02-20T21:44:00.000-08:002007-02-20T21:44:00.000-08:00Oops, one more thing: a google of "activists arms ...Oops, one more thing: a google of "activists arms akimbo" brings up several links on only the first google page for both Arms Akimbo and Boys With Arms Akimbo.<BR/><BR/>See this page: http://www.equivalence.com/labor/lab_mp_wri_dim_e.shtml<BR/><BR/>"Boys with Arms Akimbo is an anonymous activist group in San Francisco that sees itself as the driving force behind an international movement against censorship and hostility towards homosexuals. Since 1989 they have been distributing xerox posters with excerpts from sex education books and other sources under the motto "Sex is . . just sex." The Boys rely heavily on Dadaist principles, and their posters have been seen in more than 30 American and European cities as well as in Tel Aviv."<BR/><BR/>If he really is who he says he is, I still wish JG would post an honest-sounding nonconfrontational explanation for why he spends so much time behaving hostile here, but given what that group does, then his secrecy here is understandable. I apologize if I've stressed him with my doubts and posts if he had been telling the truth.<BR/><BR/>Peace, everyone, and good goddamn night!<BR/><BR/>FranAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7983462.post-7410153656672228672007-02-20T21:41:00.000-08:002007-02-20T21:41:00.000-08:00If Dow Lame's getting into this now we know SE is ...If Dow Lame's getting into this now we know SE is DG for sure, again!FDWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08525165420707410702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7983462.post-84600527401369753752007-02-20T21:22:00.000-08:002007-02-20T21:22:00.000-08:00...You're awfully dogmatic and certain. Maybe you ......You're awfully dogmatic and certain. Maybe you know something about all this others here don't? You've ragged on the ULA before and keep mocking King's writing elsewhere. I personally think you've been here anonymously before and had ironically thought of you yesterday as a possibility in this, and here you show up.... <BR/><BR/>I've punched in the text from your post--where the hell is the page with that specific info? Post a LINK. This is the web. Posting a link takes a few seconds. Why the difficulty and stubbornness on this issue? Google is maze-like in size. I'm getting back hundreds of thousands of entries. If you want people to find a specific page linked by google, indicate what the fucking page is.<BR/><BR/>Never mind, I'll post some since others seemingly have so much difficulty.<BR/><BR/>I searched California in the google Arms Akimbo string last night but couldn't find anything. But after inserting Oakland and other stuff now, I found these pages http://www.michaeltice.com/Reviews.htm http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1285/is_2_29/ai_53747378<BR/><BR/><BR/>http://www.aegis.com/news/sc/1989/SC891213.html<BR/><BR/>which mention The Boys With Arms Akimbo. Apparently, they're a gay artist group--could this be why JG wouldn't reveal himself, is he gay but is not out or something? That might explain some of the secretive behavior here, which behavior would be understandable considering how homophobic society is. But how the hell could anyone have guessed all this? It would have been nice if JG had supplied the FULL name of the art group.<BR/><BR/>By the way, earlier today I looked at a bunch of Elliot's writing, like over at Huffington Post, and I agree that his voice doesn't sound like Grace's voice here. However, Elliot's a writer, so it's possible he or whoever could write in another voice. There's no proof that this JG person is who he says he is; someone could know about TBWAA and could be using that to give the JG persona an identity.... Anymore speculation like this on my part, and Hollywood will be soliciting me to write new X-Files episodes. <BR/><BR/>I don't fucking know what's going on. But if JG isn't a writer, I still think his hanging here so much and screaming about this place is bizarre. And here I am posting again when I said I didn't want to. Pathetic.<BR/><BR/>I'm convinced the web brings out the inherently insane behavior in humanity. I must stop spending so much time trying to make sense of the insanity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7983462.post-31638452432697811162007-02-20T20:32:00.000-08:002007-02-20T20:32:00.000-08:00Jimmy,You're not Stephen Elliott. You don't write ...Jimmy,<BR/><BR/>You're not Stephen Elliott. You don't write like him.<BR/><BR/>A rather rudimentary (and incredibly quick) google search for "Oakland" and "Arms Akimbo" brings up The Boys with Arms Akimbo:<BR/><BR/>Anonymous AIDS activists, grafitti artists, Oakland.<BR/><BR/>Huh. Fits you to a T. Took about five minutes. Didn't involve a moment of self-delusion. <BR/><BR/>What do you know?<BR/><BR/>-m-The Man Who Couldn't Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02910718558602413449noreply@blogger.com