Tuesday, May 27, 2008

The PEN Board

I'M TOLD that one has to have a book published to be on PEN's board of trustees, or to become a member of PEN. This means that excluded writers can't belong to an organization meant to protect excluded writers! A neat trick.

Who are PEN board members?

They're the most privileged and connected writers in America, with the least interest in changing anything about the American writing scene. The very writers who least should be on the board of such an organization are running the thing.

The solution: There are underground writers who've been published who'd make excellent PEN trustees; Tim W. Brown, Carl Robinson, and Wred Fright among them.

43 comments:

John said...

You can still be an Associate member of PEN. Associate members get invited to the events as well.

PEN actually does things though, rather than just complain about them.

King said...

I'll be examining what PEN does.
(The ULA has done many things-- check its history. Protests and actions are right in line with the kind of literary activism PEN as an organization is meant to embody.)
What PEN does is beside the point I'm making-- which is that their board be representative of American society, and not just of this society's most privileged and successful writers-- which is as if a Soviet Union PEN would have on its board only approved apparatchiks and not samizdat writers and dissidents like Solzhenitsyn.

John said...

But PEN is not a government-run institution, so why should it have to follow rules of equality?

Freedom means being able to do what you want so long as it doesn't attack other's rights, so can't PEN make whatever guidelines for membership that it wants?

Having a couple books published isn't that rigorous is it? As far as the board goes, not everyone can be on it. It would be nice to have a mixture of different backgrounds, but, if everyone is working towards the same goals, what does it matter how many connections people have?

PEN is just a special interest group, it's not Congress.

King said...

It has 501c3 tax free status and so is obligated, by the government, to do certain things. It is, in fact, listed as a "public charity." As such, it's regulated by Congress-- and it would be incumbent of us to notify Congress of any job it's not doing.
As I said, I'll be examining these questions. Please be patient.

Harland said...

Hey, King -- what would happen if you and some of the others you champion were captured by a patrol of the literary mainstream and they lifted their AK-47s, light glinting on the muzzles, and said, gruffly, "OK. We're going to sign one of you guys to a two-book contract with a mid-five-figure advance. But you have to decide which of you is the one to be signed."

Pop quiz:

(1) would you determine the "winner" by democratic process?

(2) Would you consider the "winner" to be a member of the underground who'd made good, or, if he submitted to editorial advice, sold his books via readings and media appearances, went on network television, etc., would you consider him a turncoat and pod person?

Just curious. As you know, I've asked this question in different form several times and not received a satisfactory answer.

King said...

??? First of all, this hasn't happened and isn't right now likely to happen.
We've had scenarios in place on what to do if such an opportunity were to occur-- the price for "selling out," at least for me, would have to be high. The goal would be influence-- control over our writing as a minimum, I would think.
One writer selling out in and of itself wouldn't change things. There'd have to be more on the table.
Original ULA strategy was looking at the sell-out of Elvis Presley-- which gave seed money to Sun Records allowing it to become a real record company able to change the music scene.
This is a huge subject that doesn't pay to go into here-- how small DIY companies like Sun broke the Big Four monopoly of the time; the payola hearings which followed, et.al. I've written about this elsewhere.
Destroying the monopolies is certainly a chief objective of ours. . . .

Harland said...

"??? First of all, this hasn't happened and isn't right now likely to happen."

No, I don't suppose the situation I've described is likely to take place.

"We've had scenarios in place on what to do if such an opportunity were to occur-- the price for "selling out," at least for me, would have to be high. "

OK, but what if (say) Wred Fright were to be approached by a literary agent who'd read and liked his work, and then this agent got him a modest advance of say $15,000.

"The goal would be influence-- control over our writing as a minimum, I would think."

"Control" of one's writing and agreeing to the standard stipulation in any publisher's contract that the work will be subject to editorial oversight are not mutually exclusive. Far more important would be to have influence over the way your work is publicized, marketed, and sold. But every writer thinks that both these things are important -- from you to, erm, Rick Moody. You've sort of stumbled upon a problem. Even all those writers you think are undeservedly privileged and unjustly lionized are often ill-served by commercial publishing. Which is one reason why I think your personalizing the entire argument is counterproductive.

"One writer selling out in and of itself wouldn't change things. There'd have to be more on the table."

Like?

"Original ULA strategy was looking at the sell-out of Elvis Presley-- which gave seed money to Sun Records allowing it to become a real record company able to change the music scene."

Yeah, but Elvis was already an enormous regional phenomenon. RCA knew that he was going to break big nationwide -- it wasn't exactly a gamble to have bought out his Sun contract, even at the price they paid. The "underground" (by this I refer to the writers you regularly hold up) isn't a valid analogy.

This is a huge subject that doesn't pay to go into here-- how small DIY companies like Sun...

But Sun wasn't DIY. It was a regional independent, formed to earn a profit, that was already charting records when Elvis broke. That Sam Phillips was both visionary and rather intrepid as well as being a businessman with a sense of the bottom line more or less refutes many of your core arguments.

"Destroying the monopolies is certainly a chief objective of ours. . . ."

On the one hand you want a seat at the table, which seems perfectly reasonable to me (though I'm a little at a loss as to why you're surprised that well-known, influential writers occupy prominent, influential positions in the literary establishment. Certainly an organization like PEN stocks its board the way many other fundraising organizations do: with marquee names who can press the flesh and, even indirectly, keep donations coming in). On the other, you want to "destroy the monopolies," which so far you've identified in only the broadest, not to say most caricatured, of terms, which strikes me as an utterly quixotic pursuit, involving armed insurrection against the current order, and then the anarchic (I mean this in the most positive of senses) decentralization of publishing so that writers like those you like. . . . will publish exactly the way they are now. I don't get it.

King said...

Your history is flawed.
Sun was a low-budget storefront operation owned and begun by Sam Phillips. Much of its early income came from people making home records, like singing Happy Birthday to mom. If it wasn't DIY, what is?
OF COURSE it sought to make a profit. I'm sure this is the eventual goal also of Jeff Potter with ULA Press.
Sun became a regional happening because Phillips was able to discover new, underground talent. (Presley a truckdriver with no music training or degree.)
By "destroying" the monopolies I mean breaking their business monopoly. When you say "armed insurrection" you're being deliberately misleading.
Beginning in 1955, the Big Four record monopolies lost half their market share to upstart independents like Sun-- an unprecedented business happening. (By comparison, it's taken GM decades to lose half its market share.) Among those involved were DIY disc jockeys like Alan Freed and Dick Clark-- who were called before Congress after pressure from the monopolies; accused of ridiculous things because they were competing-- and beating-- the big guys.
A good look at the early DIY rock mindset is in the movie "Jailhouse Rock," mythical though it may be.
This is the same mindset which spawned DIY punk, the major influence on zines, which is where I came in.
(The ULA, by the way, was referred to as an "upstart" by The Guardian.)

King said...

To RM:
Your intent is always the same; to show that I'm the same as yourself in what I want; i.e., as corrupt as yourself. In your mind, that would excuse you. But if I were, that would not make it right! Your battle isn't with me, but with yourself.
"If only If." "If only If This or That."
"Aha! They're no better than I!" you want to say.
But we're not discussing Ifs, only reality. You're receiving the largesse, not me.
If only you had a conscience to grab onto, instead of your forever rationalizing and expediency. But you don't. Your class of writer is missing the conscience gene, whether through disuse or inbreeding, I can't say.
******************
Your questions are contortions, and show your bankruptcy as a personality. The motive of your sophistry is malicious-- there's no honest attempt to understand what our cause is about. It's part of your essential deceit.
What greed and delusion are inherent in your brain! You have "talent," you reason, and this excuses everything. In your mind, it allows you to take, and take, and take. Your rightful due! Divine Right. None should complain.
**************************
Re monopolies. By your logic we should let the giant conglomerates be; should raise no peep against them, and assume they're doing okay.
The publishing world is an extremely hierarchical organization, as I've explained many times, with the well-paid publishers at the top, with the power, and the writer at the bottom as supplicant. We've seen that Ray Carver and no power over his work-- nor does even a Jonathan Franzen, really.
It's part and parcel of American plutocracy-- something never mentioned on PEN's web site.
Personalizing? Are people "personalizing" when they criticize George W. Bush?
These institutions are run by people-- by individuals. It's individuals who can change them-- including a Rick Moody. The PEN matter is one example of how change could begin to happen, if those individuals at the center of the literary aristocracy themselves begin to change.
But enough of your sophistry, please.
Next time you issue a challenge, do so under your real identity.
Thank you.

Harland said...

"Your history is flawed."

No, it's not.

"Sun was a low-budget storefront operation owned and begun by Sam Phillips. Much of its early income came from people making home records, like singing Happy Birthday to mom. If it wasn't DIY, what is?"

That's a semantic argument having to do with nomenclature. OK: it's DIY, if you like.


"OF COURSE it sought to make a profit. I'm sure this is the eventual goal also of Jeff Potter with ULA Press."

And Sun selected its artists discriminatingly, in order to realize that profit. You confuse the act of *being discriminating* with *discrimination*.

"Sun became a regional happening because Phillips was able to discover new, underground talent."

So does Soft Skull. So does Graywolf. So does Dalkey. So does Coffee House. So does FC2. You've never responded in any meaningful way to my questions regarding these other publishers.

"(Presley a truckdriver with no music training or degree.)"

I guess this is relevant because all the trained musicians out there with their BFAs in music performance are getting big record contracts shoved at them.

"By "destroying" the monopolies I mean breaking their business monopoly. When you say "armed insurrection" you're being deliberately misleading."

How are you going to break their business monopoly? Through the courts? If you're not against big capitalism, then surely you see the virtue in what you're doing on its own terms: nobody's stopping the ULA or its fellow travelers from publishing, and you/they do so knowing full well that *commercial* book publishers and the vast majority of *commercial* booksellers are looking to the bottom line. As someone else has pointed out, if anyone was interested in buying your work, they'd be buying it. The ULA could open a ULA bookstore right in the heart of Times Square and I doubt it would raise the level of interest in the work.

"Beginning in 1955, the Big Four record monopolies lost half their market share to upstart independents like Sun-- an unprecedented business happening."

Tell me who owned the music publishing rights, King.

"Among those involved were DIY disc jockeys like Alan Freed and Dick Clark..."

If you want to hobble along on a crutch like the phrase "DIY" you ought not to stretch the definition beyond all recognition.

"A good look at the early DIY rock mindset is in the movie "Jailhouse Rock," mythical though it may be.
This is the same mindset which spawned DIY punk, the major influence on zines, which is where I came in."

Thanks, I've seen it. What is the same mindset? The mindset of the characters? The mindset of the actors? The mindset of the writers? The mindset of the director? Again, what does "DIY" mean to you? Is it an attitude or an actual definable practice?

(The ULA, by the way, was referred to as an "upstart" by The Guardian.)

So what? Why do you froth at the mouth about the mainstream but haul out every half-assed damn-with-faint-praise clip you've ever gotten?

Harland said...

"Your intent is always the same; to show that I'm the same as yourself in what I want; i.e., as corrupt as yourself."

Actually, I don't think it is. I would like to see publishing change. I would like to see worthy writers well-published by publishers of all shapes and sizes. I would like to see things change so books remain in print and available. I would like to see review attention be more widely spread out and varied. I would like to see bigger advances going to more authors.

I think you just want to be published, and you're mad because you're not. I think if people were as afraid of you as you delude yourself into thinking they are, they'd offer you a book contract -- co-opt you. You'd grab it in a second, and you know it. But nobody gives a damn about what you say. It's bluster, it's illogical, and nobody's listening.

"In your mind, that would excuse you. But if I were, that would not make it right! Your battle isn't with me, but with yourself."

I'm totally at peace with myself. I know you yearn to believe that I went from a privileged upbringing to an Ivy League school, then went on to an MFA, and now write frivolous fiction that's regularly published in "establishment" journals, go to the cocktail party the "establishment" has running on a round-the-clock basis, and have geysers of cash streaming into my investment accounts. You don't have any idea who I am, and you refuse to hear what I believe in.
""If only If." "If only If This or That."
"Aha! They're no better than I!" you want to say.
But we're not discussing Ifs, only reality. You're receiving the largesse, not me."

What largesse? Tell me what largesse -- please. Who do you imagine me to be? Maybe I'm just amused by you. Maybe I hate your special brand of sophistry. Maybe I despise the fact that I actually do work to change things when I can and you sit hunched in your corner, spitting and snarling and calling it protest. You know the biggest illustration of the system's corruption? That it's so sensation-addicted that they actually give a know-nothing, no-talent bum like you any attention at all.

"If only you had a conscience to grab onto, instead of your forever rationalizing and expediency. But you don't. Your class of writer is missing the conscience gene, whether through disuse or inbreeding, I can't say."

Again, you're talking to a shadow. Like the good little creative writer I am, I've created this character, "Harland," who's talking to you -- deliberately using artifice to disguise myself, to leave you guessing as to my origins and motivations. And you fall for it. Every time. You're really a sucker -- keep jumping for those grapes, King.


"Your questions are contortions, and show your bankruptcy as a personality. The motive of your sophistry is malicious-- there's no honest attempt to understand what our cause is about."

If it were a real cause, you wouldn't identify it as "yours." Literature is "ours." Isn't that what you always say? It belongs to the people. I'm not malicious. I'm engaging you. You're the one who has a conniption when people disagree with you. I'm used to people disagreeing with me. Then I go sit at my desk and write fiction or reviews or whatever it is that's before me -- you know, my life's work. If I were a half-assed polemicist like you, consumed with bitterness, I'd kill myself. But I think I'm a little more self aware. It takes a special kind of solipsist to fail to recognize their own lack of talent and transmogrify the complete indifference to the productions deriving from that lack of talent to paranoia and class warfare.

"It's part of your essential deceit."

To be incapable of understanding you? No, it's part of your essential inarticulateness.


"What greed and delusion are inherent in your brain! You have "talent," you reason, and this excuses everything."

It does.

"In your mind, it allows you to take, and take, and take. Your rightful due! Divine Right."

No, it allows me to write, and write, and write. Without spending my days and nights worrying about the unfair edge the "competition" has.

"None should complain."

If I had a dollar for every envious asshole I've met who had some lameassed excuse having nothing to do with their own incapacity for why they hadn't published, exhibited, performed, recorded, etc. I'd probably have enough to pay my rent tomorrow.



"Re monopolies. By your logic we should let the giant conglomerates be; should raise no peep against them, and assume they're doing okay."

No, on the contrary: if you feel this strongly about it, you shouldn't be blogging, you should be arranging to receive a shipment of Kalishnikovs.

"The publishing world is an extremely hierarchical organization, as I've explained many times, with the well-paid publishers at the top, with the power, and the writer at the bottom as supplicant."

Yup, just what I said yesterday.

"We've seen that Ray Carver and no power over his work."

Some writers place themselves in the hands of their editors. Go figure. Others don't.

"-- nor does even a Jonathan Franzen, really."

How would you know?

"It's part and parcel of American plutocracy-- something never mentioned on PEN's web site."

What's not? That writers get edited? Is that part of the "oppression" PEN should be fighting? URGENT REPORT: noted author Susan Sontag received an editorial letter from FSG chief Jonathan Galassi requesting eighteen cuts in her new manuscript! Or is it the "oppression" of the ULA, who through no fault of their own were born either without talent or without the inclination to write fiction that might appeal to more than a handful of similarly minded people? Either way, you're actually insulting writers who really are censored, brutally, who are imprisoned, or killed, or otherwise silenced. What a jackass you are.

"Personalizing? Are people "personalizing" when they criticize George W. Bush?"

Tell me one way in which Rick Moody's position in American letters is in any way analogous to the Bush presidency. Go ahead, here are another four or five feet of rope.

"These institutions are run by people-- by individuals. It's individuals who can change them-- including a Rick Moody. The PEN matter is one example of how change could begin to happen, if those individuals at the center of the literary aristocracy themselves begin to change."

Again, what changes would you like PEN to make, other than installing ULA stalwarts on the board? An investigation into the practices of trade publishers? URGENT REPORT: Trade publishers prefer books they think will sell! Trade publishers run scared from different/strange/experimental work!

"But enough of your sophistry, please.
Next time you issue a challenge, do so under your real identity.
Thank you."

Don't know why you're so hung up on who I am. Maybe, like you, I'm just THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE.

John said...

So you've admitted, King, that you would sell out if the price is high enough.

Not surprised.

John said...

Oh, btw, DIY would be using yout own equipment to record Happy Birthday for Mom, not paying a fee or even being paid for someone else to set up their own equipment for you.

Anonymous said...

Jesus Christ, guys. This is a fucking bloodbath. I'm tempted to say leave the poor guy alone, but it's too damned compelling watching the self-proclaimed master of ballyhoo get analytically reamed with the dildo of rationality...

Harland said...

Oh, hey, King: I have another question for you.

That piece you published in BookForum a while back -- that must have been published during Andrew Hultkrans' tenure as editor.

Hultkrans was a zine editor.

Hultkrans went to Harvard.

Hultkrans also sat on the PEN board for some years.

It seems, at the least, that some of your assumptions are false.

Or is it simply that he's not the "right kind" of zinester?

King said...

Bloodbath? Maybe. To me it shows the panic which occurs when someone dares question the status quo literary world.
"Harland" says he just "writes and writes and writes"? He's sure doing a lot of writing here!
Why is that, do you think?
Regarding DIY-- it's low-level entreprenurial capitalism, nothing more than that. Some guy has a vision of creating a record company; saves his money, rents a small storefront, buys some extremely modest equipment, and goes to it. He has ownership, answering to nobody. (The two dj's I mentioned were DIYers in that they owned tiny record companies which they made profitable.)
Rent "Jailhouse Rock" and you'll see the idea. The artist can't break in, so he starts his own record company. This is excatly what zinesters have been doing.
I realized, however, that with the extreme noise in this society, that part of a marketing strategy had to be making noise. Letting potential customers know about the product. This is where small micro-publishers were outgunned 10,000 to one.
It's Econ 101, really-- free advertising a necessity for those who couldn't afford to pay for it.
The wrinkle I threw in was to expose corruption while doing so-- having found the lit world to be extremely corrupt with no signs of budging.
RM, you make what seem to you to be coherent arguments, but they ignore the context of the real world, where some in this society start way ahead of others.
My noise is a way to balance this.
The facts as I've described them on this blog remain-- that the literary world is dominated by the upper classes; that America itself is becoming more and more of a plutocracy, with American literature today reflective of this.
In various ways, writers from the bottom half of the society are shut out. Shut out by the educational system. (Study sometime the class make-up of the Ivy League universities-- then study the clout they have compared to lesser colleges. It's no accident that the last five Presidents have been grads of either Harvard or Yale, or both.) Shut out by the publishing world with its various "standards," a world, again, highly unrepresentative of the nation at large.
These are large topics which I don't have time to go into here-- but will address on this blog.
Noteworthy, again, that we get from your side re these matters only hostility.
Mr. Moody, who I believe "Harland" is-- who else?-- is so out-of-touch that he won't concede, ever, that he's done the slightest thing wrong, not just with the Guggenheim but his other activities at the center of the lit world. His telling me how hard teaching a creative writing class is, showed his cluelessness. Wow! Very tough, I'm sure. I'm a guy who's worked since I was fourteen, as many as 100 hours a week, not twenty, and have worked in some monstrous places, including the pits at a giant truck plant outside Detroit. I see things from the bottom up, if you will. I approached literature from that direction, and saw, as a reader, what it was and wasn't doing.
By the way, the Bookforum example shows that my interest is not "getting published." I write for other reasons. It's my way to address the plutocracy, the fact of plutocracy-- my attempt to have a voice.
I did the BF review because a writer I respected asked me to. I found it a disagreeable experience, my review's p-o-v altered, the editor himself, Mr. Hultkrans, even adding his own words to it. Not something I would again put up with-- so I declined doing any more for them.
How does this discredit me? That I've given the established lit-world on occasions the benefit of the doubt? That I haven't been completely closed to them-- have reached out, as I've done here to Mr. Moody himself?
It's never worked. The lit world is so arrogant, so complacent, so beyond change, that the only way to deal with them is, yes, through the stunts the underground has engaged in.
For those who are shut out, as our kind of writers have been and continue to be shut out, what other option is there?
And please, I've already addressed the token small press, who in many instances represent the same-old boozhie mindset. If they were a threat they'd be blackballed the same way the legitimate underground's publications are.
Blackballers, the lot of you-- and you have the nerve to come on here under your phony identities and tell me what I'm doing wrong!
Who am I? I'm nobody-- I have no power, no institutions behind me, no coteries of rich friends, no distinguished decision-making positions on boards or in publishing houses.
I'm merely one guy with a voice-- who the reactionaries are ganging up on to stomp out even the merest hint of dissent against their cozy world.
Well, you'll win a round or two, but the war goes on.
Have a good day.

Anonymous said...

"Blackballed," you're a hoot. Nobody here is blackballing you from anything. They just disagree with you. If you don't want disagreement, you should get outta the revolution biz. If you're up for disagreement, then you might address your commenters' points, instead of whining that everybody's disagreeing with you and so they must be rich powerful people who are secretly afraid of the revolution you keep forgetting to launch.

Harland said...

"Bloodbath? Maybe. To me it shows the panic."

Identify instances of panic in my responses.


""Harland" says he just "writes and writes and writes"? He's sure doing a lot of writing here!
Why is that, do you think?"

Warms me up for stuff that's actually difficult.

"Regarding DIY-- it's low-level entreprenurial capitalism, nothing more than that."

Excuse me -- I have to go buy a Coke from the "DIY" bodega on the corner.


"Rent "Jailhouse Rock" and you'll see the idea."

Can I rent it through Netflix, or do you recommend that I get it from my local "DIY" video store?

"The artist can't break in, so he starts his own record company. This is excatly what zinesters have been doing."

King, you're such a romantic. I'm touched that you're hung up on, inspired by, Hollywood sentimentality.


"I realized, however, that with the extreme noise in this society, that part of a marketing strategy had to be making noise. Letting potential customers know about the product."

I have to say that it was with true entrepreneurial grit and spirit and resourcefulness that you identified that starving niche market for self-published work. Bravo!, and all that. We've all heard of you and the product, though, now -- any clues yet why nobody's reading you? Why your "discovery" (a la Elvis!) isn't imminent. Hmmm.


"It's Econ 101, really-- free advertising a necessity for those who couldn't afford to pay for it."

Actually, the lesson of Econ 101 might be something like: (a) when everybody can "advertise" for free on the web, the value of advertising itself is somewhat negated, so, (b) the product had better be demonstrably superior. This lesson is also known as: "I spent the band fund on sending postcards out to the names on our mailing list, and we *still* only had three people show!"

"The wrinkle I threw in was to expose corruption while doing so."

Interesting wrinkle. Has it ever occurred to you to vary the diet a little? "Expose" aridity in the desert, for example. A few well-placed essays on how it is bad that poor schoolchildren sometimes have to go without lunch?

"...having found the lit world to be extremely corrupt with no signs of budging."

Define "lit world." In your particular conception of things, it ranges from PEN to Time Warner to Rick Moody to Alain Robbe-Grillet, from academic MFA programs out in Bumfuck, Indiana to George Plimpton's townhouse, from the Oulipo to the minimalists. What lit world?

What corruption are you talking about? When you say "corrupt" do you mean commercial? Or do you mean, "The 'lit world' is corrupt because once upon a time a very rich man, son of one of the wealthiest families in America, denizen of Fishers Island, where only the ultrarich may dwell, Hiram F. Moody III, son of Hiram Moody, Jr., an investment banker, received a Guggenheim"? Is that what you mean? And the democratizing process involves what? Letting everyone with a blog get a Guggenheim? Suffrage for the unpublished, so that they can get a vote on the PEN board? Is there any room for merit in your sense of the new literary order? Time and again I've asked you to explain what you like about the writers you champion and what you dislike about the writers you disparage. Time and again you've declined to do so.

"RM, you make what seem to you to be coherent arguments,"

I know.

"...but they ignore the context of the real world, where some in this society start way ahead of others."

No they don't. I've mentioned it at least a half-dozen times: acknowledged the hierarchical nature of the literary establishment, acknowledged that often connections were more influential in determining a given writer's place in the pantheon than talent and achievement -- acknowledged all your points, clarified them -- in fact, made your own arguments better than you have.


"My noise is a way to balance this.
The facts as I've described them on this blog remain-- that the literary world is dominated by the upper classes."

Is Philip Roth a member of the "upper classes"? Is Don DeLillo? Possibly the two most dominant, influential and successful writers working today. One born in the Bronx to immigrants, the other born in Newark to a first generation American insurance salesman.

"that America itself is becoming more and more of a plutocracy, with American literature today reflective of this."

You're right about America, have provided no proof about "literature" (I keep mentioning something else you fail to acknowledge -- you are creating "literature," the ULA guys are creating "literature" -- what you're not doing is being made conventionally famous).

"In various ways, writers from the bottom half of the society are shut out."

And in various ways they aren't. The terrible truth is, most writers are "shut out." Most writers -- patrician or bourgeois, wealthy or working class -- don't make it. I don't see the evidence you're presenting to convince me that "the bottom half" is underrepresented. It's anecdotal. It's based on your casual observations. If you want to convince me or anybody else, you ought to have some proof. And, er, ahem: I wouldn't call the ULA the most diverse group going.

"(Study sometime the class make-up of the Ivy League universities-- then study the clout they have compared to lesser colleges. It's no accident that the last five Presidents have been grads of either Harvard or Yale, or both.)"

What does the Ivy League lineage of the last five Presidents have to do with anything?

Do you really think you're telling anybody anything new about the world by mentioning that the Ivy League has disproportionate clout?

"Shut out by the publishing world with its various "standards,""

Like literacy.

"a world, again, highly unrepresentative of the nation at large."

Can't defend the white middle classness of the publishing industry, but tell me again about the perfect demographic balance of the ULA?

"These are large topics which I don't have time to go into here--"

Whenever you say this I always picture you ducking into an alley, to emerge the other end clad in the distinctive uniform of...ULA MAN!


"Noteworthy, again, that we get from your side re these matters only hostility."

Disagreement isn't necessarily hostility, and an insistence that you blow up your rhetorical balloon with something a little more substantive than your own hot air isn't hostile at all. If you had been admitted to one of those -- what was it you called them? Conformity Factories? -- confomity factories you deplore and tried in an essay to argue your points the way you do here you would rightly be asked for other sources, for corroboration, for statistics to back up your claims.

"Mr. Moody, who I believe "Harland" is-- who else?-- is so out-of-touch that he won't concede, ever, that he's done the slightest thing wrong, not just with the Guggenheim but his other activities at the center of the lit world."

I have to make it very clear that I am not Rick Moody. OK? You'll have to take my word on that one, but I'm not Moody.

If you had any ear at all you would see that my writing isn't at all like his.

What are the other activities I -- er, he -- has to atone for?


"His telling me how hard teaching a creative writing class is, showed his cluelessness. Wow! Very tough, I'm sure."

Actually, that shows your cluelessness -- doesn't it? I've taught them, you haven't.

"I'm a guy who's worked since I was fourteen, as many as 100 hours a week, not twenty, and have worked in some monstrous places, including the pits at a giant truck plant outside Detroit."

Yup. I've worked in factories, I worked cleaning roadkill off the highway, putting up sheetrock, inhaling brick dust, being a foot messenger, mail clerk -- I worked at least a dozen dreary, physically demanding jobs. Maybe another relatively clean jobs inside an office. Maybe not in a pit outside Detroit -- King's got me there.

"I see things from the bottom up, if you will. I approached literature from that direction, and saw, as a reader, what it was and wasn't doing."

It sounds to me as if you lugged a certain social perspective with you to your reading experience, a set of expectations that "literature" as it's ordinarily defined, couldn't meet.

"By the way, the Bookforum example shows that my interest is not "getting published." I write for other reasons. It's my way to address the plutocracy, the fact of plutocracy-- my attempt to have a voice."

Wouldn't it help if maybe you took a course in expository writing? I'm not kidding. You're very passionate. You have trouble organizing your arguments, though.

"I did the BF review because a writer I respected asked me to. I found it a disagreeable experience, my review's p-o-v altered, the editor himself, Mr. Hultkrans, even adding his own words to it."

That happens. It's very frustrating. Generally, though, I've found that my own work is less likely to be altered against my wishes if I can express an argument in favor of keeping it unchanged.

"Not something I would again put up with-- so I declined doing any more for them."

That's too bad. You might have learned something. I wouldn't call BookForum the most hostile outpost of the "literary establishment."

"How does this discredit me?"

Because you suggested that (1) Ivy Leaguers were ipso facto hostile to the DIY mentality and to, you know, life on earth generally, (2) that it would be a terrific thing if a zine editor could get on the board of PEN, and (3) it wouldn't happen. But it did happen. Andrew Hultkrans, whose suspicion of the powers that be dwarfs your own, sat on the PEN board and occupied an influential editorial position. But rather than praise him, you bitterly (albeit understandably) complain about his having edited you.

"That I've given the established lit-world on occasions the benefit of the doubt? That I haven't been completely closed to them-- have reached out, as I've done here to Mr. Moody himself?"

"Just sign this confession, Moody." Is that your idea of reaching out?


"It's never worked. The lit world is so arrogant, so complacent, so beyond change, that the only way to deal with them is, yes, through the stunts the underground has engaged in."

Or you could just write, and write, and write. To coin a phrase.

"For those who are shut out, as our kind of writers have been and continue to be shut out."

Here we are back where we started. Lots of writers are shut out. But you're not talking about all the writers who are shut out by the establishment -- you're talking about a little cabal of perhaps, what? A dozen? Can you define "our kind" of writers?

"And please, I've already addressed the token small press, who in many instances represent the same-old boozhie mindset."

No, you haven't. You've basically dismissed them from the argument by claiming that they're irrelevant and/or collaborators. Again, some proof: in which instances? How do they represent the "boozhie" mindset?

"If they were a threat they'd be blackballed the same way the legitimate underground's publications are."

"Legitimate underground." Savor that, everybody.

Blackballed? You mean, like, if you published a book with Copper Canyon it might not end up on the shelves at Barnes & Noble? Instead of the current situation, where the tables at the front of the store are groaning under the weight of the small press books there?

""Blackballers, the lot of you-- and you have the nerve to come on here under your phony identities and tell me what I'm doing wrong!"

You have the nerve to run this blog, don't you? What'd you expect -- applause from we apparatchiks? We're trying to destroy you, after all!

"Who am I? I'm nobody-- I have no power, no institutions behind me, no coteries of rich friends, no distinguished decision-making positions on boards or in publishing houses."

Me neither. I got talent though, so I'm less bitter than you are.

"I'm merely one guy with a voice-- who the reactionaries are ganging up on to stomp out even the merest hint of dissent against their cozy world."

Do these reactionaries have names? Is it Rick who's trying to stomp you out, or the PEN board, or the CIA people, or is it Fence or McSweeney's? Is it Knopf? Is it Seven Stories? Is it Gordon Lish or Gerry Howard? Is it Albert Mobilio? Is it Jaime Clark? Is it Ed Champion? Is it Heidi Julavits? Is it the faculty of the Columbia University Graduate Writing Program? Is it Michael Chabon? Jonathan Lethem? Who?

"Well, you'll win a round or two, but the war goes on.
Have a good day."

What do you get when you win? A two-book contract?

King said...

Re Hultkrans-- his perspective on zines was that they were strictly quirky. My original assignment was to write about zines for him-- but I took the movement seriously. Read his own writings on them and you'll see his perspective is entirely opposite to mine.
He was slumming, with an amused attitude about what he was doing.
Putting him on a board would be adding one more Overdog-- hardly what I'm talking about.

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